If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant; if we
did not sometimes taste of adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.
If what I do prove well, it won't advance. They'll say it's stolen, or else it was by chance.
If ever two were one, then surely we. If ever man were loved by wife, then thee.
Iron till it be thoroughly heated is incapable to be wrought; so God sees good to cast some men into the furnace of affliction, and then beats them on his anvil into what frame he pleases.
Let Greeks be Greeks, and women what they are.
Youth is the time of getting, middle age of improving, and old age of spending.
There is no object that we see; no action that we do; no good that we enjoy; no evil that we feel, or fear, but we may make some spiritual advantage of all: and he that makes such improvement is wise, as well as pious.
Authority without wisdom is like a heavy axe without an edge, fitter to bruise than polish.
The quote that I chose to do was "If what I do prove well, it won't advance. They'll say it's stolen, or else it was by chance." When I think of this quote in relationship to the Puritan ways, beliefs and society, I definitely think it reflects how people that aren't main members or members in the Church feel. The Puritans believed that everyone has evil in them and that their fate is predestined by God; meaning that if someone is supposed to go to Hell, no matter what they do for God or how good they act, they will go to Hell. This is a part of the pessimistic ideas from the Puritans that's shown in this quote. With the Puritans go into everything thinking in a negative way, there's no way that anyone in the society could do something good and get credit from everyone else, especially if people think that the persons predetermined fate is something bad. You could relate this idea back to "The Lottery" as saying that the person who ended up choosing the black dot already had a plan from God that that would happen to them. Another way you can relate it to the "The Lottery" is showing how somethings are never good enough for people; like when the ladies husband picked the black dot and that wasn't good for her because she didn't want to lose him and as a result, she picked it. This is an example of not having Prudence as a society because there is not need for doing "the lottery" and hurting or potentially killing someone who doesn't deserve it. The Puritans also perform different punishments to people when they view is necessary, even if it's just women that are talking about what's going on around town; that would result in their tongues having a hole burnt into them. This isn't practical judgment for this specific affair. The puritans overall do not express Prudence in anything that they do because of their negative and pessimistic ways.
ReplyDeleteAnne Bradstreet, a Puritan, created the following quote: “Authority without wisdom is like a heavy axe without an edge, fitter to bruise than polish”. Her belief is very interesting because it greatly contrasts with the Puritan way of life, revealing that the Puritans were not a prudent people. Puritan society believed heavily that one should conform to laws and authority. This authority usually came in the form of a civil magistrate who was required to swear an oath to God. Church ministers also played a large role in governing the Puritan community. If any member of the village expressed any disagreements with what the minister preached or broke any law, they were severely punished. Punishment included having a hole burnt through one’s tongue and being hanged. The people accused of witchcraft were often political opponents of the authorities. The Puritans could not understand that all people, no matter how powerful, have flaws. They just assumed that people of authority would always be wise, and should thus be followed obediently. This is a very dangerous and imprudent assumption, for if one of the magistrates or ministers had been corrupt, the Puritan people would have been badly bruised. This relates to “The Lottery” because, in this short story, the villagers are molded and controlled by the laws of the past. Their one major authority is the man in charge of running the lottery, Mr. Summers. Just as Puritan leaders had to swear an oath to God, Mr. Summers has to swear an oath before becoming the official of the lottery. The town then follows Mr. Summers' rules and judgment calls. Mr. Summers, unfortunately, does not have much wisdom. He should realize that the lottery is actually harmful to the villagers, bruising them with the loss of friends and family members. If he and the authorities before him had been more virtuous, they would have put an end to the lottery and an end to the unnecessary slaughter. If the villagers had understood, as Anne Hutchinson did, that such an authority is harmful and dangerous, perhaps they would have stopped coming to the lottery or destroyed the lottery box all together. The villager’s obedience to their leader would have been admired by the Puritans, though it is in no way wise or prudent. The Puritans were clearly not a prudent people, based on their inability to understand that leaders can lack in wisdom, becoming very dangerous to those that they lead.
ReplyDeleteThe quote I chose was "If we had no winter, the spring would not be pleasant; if we did not sometimes taste of adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome." I think that this is the basis of many Puritan beleifs, the idea of working hard makes you sleep better at night, that you can only feel sustained once you've felt empty. The story about Young Goodman Brown showed this, but almost in an opposite way. he started off happy, sustained, but then he was greedy and went looking for more. but what he found was evil, emptiness. and I guess the puritans beleive one can no longer feel sustained once they've been introduced to evil. if he could hae turned his back on this evil, gone back to feel of prosperity, than he could compare the feelings a different way, instead all he could do was look back on the time when he was innocent. Based on the understanding of the Puritans i have gained over the past week or two, I feel that in relation to this quote, the Puritans are capable of a limited amount of prudence. Prudence is being able to make a levelheaded decision about justice, and while this is not always their strong point, i beleive that they try. The Puritans have their beleif of right and wrong, of accepted punishments, just as we do today. and while we may say that they are overreacting, they may say that we are under-reacting. The Puritan's punishments related to their society, and though harsh, were consistant.
ReplyDeleteThe quote that I chose was "Let Greeks be Greeks and women what they are." I think that this has alot to do with the Puritans because they thought of women as helpers and they were and still are much more than that. The husbands need to let them be a mother and a wife and let them love their husbands, not just act as if they are a maid. In Young Goodman Brown, he left his wife Faith to go be a part of evil and I feel that he treated her more as a woman than the Puritans did, because while he was gone he kept thinking of her and hoping that "Faith" wouldn't let him down. I feel that in the lottery they aswell treated the wives as helpers and that they were just there to be there. Not as if they had any particular purpose other than house work and children. When the families went to the lottery it was always the men in the family who had to draw to see their fate. I believe that even society today needs to do more in the way of treating wives and woman as more than just a helper. There could be bad turnouts if this does not occur.
ReplyDeleteThe quote I chose was "Let Greeks be Greeks, and women what they are." I think this quote shows what the Puritans really thought of women. It shows that they didn't care what women thought but they cared about what the women did or didn't do, or even how they dressed. Their strong belief in their religion seemed to help this idea. The idea that men were more important than women. Men being the ultimate authority and women being the care takers of house and home. This also showed that the women 'knew their place' in that day and age. They were too afraid to stand up for themselves, but then again, that's all they ever knew. The Puritans had prudence in how they dressed and in their actions, as well as their religion.
ReplyDeleteThe quote that I chose was "There is no object that we see; no action that we do; no good that we enjoy; no evil that we feel, or fear, but we may make some spiritual advantage of all: and he that makes such improvement is wise, as well as pious." This quote is saying that the Puritans believed that the people that are only living for God are wise because that is what everyone is meant to do. In our class discussions we learned that the Puritans believe that it is there duty to live for God and devote their entire lives to their religion. And this quote is just enhancing that learning. They do not make any decision in their lives without first thinking about God and if God would want them to do it. The Puritans are extremely devoted to their god just like this quote is saying they don’t see anything, do anything, enjoy anything, or fear anything without their being some "spiritual advantage" to it, or without their being some way for them to get closer to god. So because the Puritans are so devoted to God and to their beliefs the Puritans do not show any sign of Prudence. It is not practical to spend every second of your day thinking about how everything you makes you look to God and deciding if it is good or bad. It is also not very practical to think about how you are fulfilling your duty to God at every step of your life. It is just not a very logical thing to do. You can still be devoted to your faith and not have it take over your life. So overall this quote, what I researched, and out class discussions all prove that the Puritans do not express any sign of Prudence.
ReplyDelete"Authority without wisdom is like a heavy axe without an edge, fitter to bruise than polish". To me this quote relates a lot to all of the short stories we've read this year. When we think of a axe we think of pain and hard work, but then the author of the quote uses the word polished. This use of words reminds me of Young Goodman Brown and the other short stories where the authors take normally peaceful and calming words such as faith and twists them into a different mood that the reader has never seen.
ReplyDeleteThe quote that I chose was “If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant; if we
ReplyDeletedid not sometimes taste of adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.” To me this quote is showing the value of diversity. Seeing bad things in life makes us value the good things we have. For the Puritans, this shows how we are sinners and need to be sinners in order to value God. This is somewhat contradictory to their beliefs. They would never go a day without obeying God and the strict values their church has set up. Like with “Young Goodman Brown”, he has to witness terrible things to truly see his community for what it is. He sees the good on the outside but the evil is what stands out to him. It is the same with “The Lottery”; the mother had to witness the stoning of her daughter to realize this treatment was unfair. The Puritans, however, do not see eye to eye with this. They see only the wrath of God. The opposite would be to be without Him. This does not coincide with the Puritans having Prudence. All of their judgment is made off of the rules of their church and what they believe God has told them to do. This does not always make sense in practical affairs. The rules of the Puritans and their punishments seemed to be out of line. If a woman was caught gossiping a hole would be burned through her tongue. This is not sound judgment because it would make it difficult for the woman to ever talk again, whether it be gossip of not. If you were believed to be a witch by not attending church, you could be hanged. The Puritans may have believed they were exhibiting Prudence but in reality it was not.
"If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant; if we did not sometimes taste of adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome." I think this quote can be used to describe the puritans view because back in there day I feel their beliefs caused them to always having to take the hard way to get what they needed done. But in the end it was for the best for them. For instance the Salem witch trials; the puritans may have killed many innocent people but it controlled the people from sinning and it sustained their fear of sin. So even though we view it as bad it was the norm for them. I also think that it can be described/connected with the Dark Knight quote "The night is always darkest just before the dawn."
ReplyDeleteThe quote "Let Greeks be Greeks, and women what they are" clearly shows the purtian's view that everyone in society has their line they must walk on and the guidelines they must live by. The men are to teach their family about god, the women are to help the men, and the children are to be seen, not heard. If anyone steps a toe off their line or breaks outside of their social guidlines, then proper punishments ensue. They have discretion and are not supposed to do things in public, or sometimes even at all. They MUST do other things and are given no choice on some occasions. They are simply supposed to do what the society gender roles tell them to do. The Puritans would most likely believe they themselves were prudent. They thought they asessed situations right and reacted accordingly. They were discreet about their own lives in public, and they stuck to what they were supposed to do. All, or most, of the puritans did what they were supposed to do. They had good sense when following what The Bible and society told them to do; however, when the rules weren't followed or something was out of the norm, they lost a little of their good sense and punished maybe too harshly.
ReplyDeleteThe quote I chose was, "authority without wisdom is like a heavy axe without an edge, fitter to bruise than polish." This quote really describes the way Puritans lived and also led their community. The leaders in the Puritan community had lots of power and authority, but their beliefs were a little estranged. For example; during the Salem Witch Trials they killed many people who were simply accused of being witches. These accusations were based for sicknesses or weaknesses. So, these Puritan leaders had tons of power, but little knowledge, causing their outcomes to be of minimal effect. Also, this quote can relate to "The Lottery", when it comes to authority without wisdom. The leaders of the community decided to do a lottery for a bad job, they could have thought of a much easier way to determine who did the job. The decision was made with little wisdom, which overall hurt the community by causing mistrust and chaos within. So, the quote, "authority without wisdom is like a heavy axe without an edge, fitter to bruise than polish" is very true in the Puritan world.
ReplyDelete“Let Greeks be Greeks, and women what they are.” The meaning of this quote, by Anne Bradstreet, parallels to the section we have read in “The Crucible” and from what we have learned about the Puritans. The Puritan way of life consisted of men and women having different roles in society. The women were often looked down upon. Their roles were more so the roles of maids. The men had all the authority and looked at the women as people with no power or say in anything. I think that the Puritans thought they had prudence even though they did not quite. They acted upon what their religion requires and tried to create a society that was fit for everybody. Even though they did what they thought was right at the time, I think they may have gone a little too far in some of the laws and the way they treated some of the people.
ReplyDeleteThe quote I chose was: "Authority without wisdom is like a heavy axe wihtout an edge, fitter to bruise than to polish." I chose this quote because I think it brings to surface the fact that the leaders of Putitan communities, such as in "The Lottery" and "Young Goodman Brown", aren't actually leaders at all. The Puritans, as we discussed, are sustained by thier stong tradition and thier belief in God, this being said, those priorities effect the election of their leaders. Someone could be elected based on his participation in the church, not his smarts; or someone could be appointed leader due to thier father's history with the community. The leaders of the Puritan communities weren't infact leaders at all: they have authority wihtout wisdom. Followers just believed them to be smart because they were in charge. People just blindly picked out their leaders based on insufficient reasons which makes them very imprudent. This imprudence resulted in them being bruised by those they thought to be wise.
ReplyDeleteThe quote I chose was, "Authority without wisdom is like a heavy axe without an edge, fitter to bruise than polish." I found this quote interesting because it greatly shows Puritan beliefs, and illustrates one of the ideas in the short story "The Lottery". Puritans teach that wisdom is only gained through God and all political decisions be made on what they perceive as God's Will. Their leaders may not have the slightest idea about politics in New England, but since they know the most Bible, then they are fit to be their people's leader. In "The Lottery", the people obey the rules of the lottery to the letter. They, for the most part,do not object to the practice and actually believe that it is good for their people. They practice the art of authority without wisdom and enjoy doing so. Also, people are bruised literally for believing in this system of leadership as they are stoned and beaten to death. The Puritans do not portray prudence because they cannot make practical decisions. They would rather elect a leader who knows nothing of dealing with Indians or the British than someone who has practiced the art of politics for years. This shows us that Puritans are unable to exhibit prudence in all aspects of their lives.
ReplyDelete"Let Greeks be Greeks, and women what they are. This quote explains the Puritans' life style. They didn't show respect for the women. The women were the ones who did the housework.Education was not an option for them because they were thought to be not smart enough. You see this gender role in the short story "The Lottery". Also the puritans were afraid of anything different. If you did not conform to their ways you were shunned. In the first part of the Crucible this comes up. " a combine of state and religious power whose function was to keep the community together, and to prevent any kind of disunity that might open it to destruction..." There are afraid of people being different.
ReplyDeleteAnne Bradsreet's quote, "If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant; if we did not sometimes taste of adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome", portrays one simple message. This states that one thing results from another, or more specifically, one good thing occurs from one negative thing. The puritan's prudence is very well represented in Bradstreet's statement with knowledgeable traits such as wisdom and sound judgement. This cause and effect idea is illustrated well in "The Lottery" as the town members were prepared and ready for their so-called special event. They knew which member to let represent the family when they were called to come up. Also, this theory is represented well in "Young Goodman Brown" Though Goodman chose to accept the elder's invitation in the end only to search for his wife Faith, he was reluctant the whole time for he knew the results would not be good. Finally, Anne's quote can be portrayed through the game of life. With every mistake comes more knowledge which makes the next experience even better for us.
ReplyDeleteI chose the quote, "Youth is the time of getting, middle age of improving, and old age of spending." I think this quote really explains the Puritans' beliefs and morals because they believe that as a child you need to understand and learn the ways of their religion. When you are middle aged you need to improve your practice of the religion and improve on not committing any sin. When you grow old it is a time of spending because you think back on the times of practice and the long sermons of the Puritan belief. You have paid your dues and are thinking back and spending time with the memories. I think this quote really relates to the stories we have read because it shows that older people are wiser and know better then the young ones who need to learn the ways of the Puritan lifestyle and the middle aged you need to improve their lives. In "Young Goodman Brown" he was a middle aged or young person still learning and improving on the practice which is why he was so easily convinced to sin. In "The Lottery" it showed families improving their lives and hoping not to be picked for the lottery. All of these stories relate to the quote and shows how importance of the belief and rules system is in all aspects of the lives of the Puritans
ReplyDeleteThe quote I chose was “There is no object that we see; no action that we do; no good that we enjoy; no evil that we feel, or fear, but we may make some spiritual advantage of all: and he that makes such improvement is wise, as well as pious.” I think what this quote is saying is that no matter what the Puritans do or say or feel; they can’t do without the worship of God. I think that this relates to the stories “The Lottery” and “Young Goodman Brown,” because in both stories, the characters are all worshipful of God. In “The Lottery” the scenario in the beginning was portrayed as a happy interaction between the people of the community, but as the story continues, it alters into a story of brutality and evil. Between the two opposite tones of the story good and evil, it was still a matter of God. In “Young Goodman Brown,” Goodman Brown left his wife Faith, and happened upon a world of demonic ideals and evil people. Both stories have a shift in the feeling of the story, but no matter what the feeling, it still came from God. In all good and all evil, everything comes from God.
ReplyDeleteAnne Bradstreet, a masterful Puritan poet of the 17th century, created several collections of poems. Many of Bradstreet’s poems related to her religion, as does the following saying: “Iron till it be thoroughly heated is incapable to be wrought; so God sees good to cast some men into the furnace of affliction, and then beats them on his anvil into what frame he pleases”. The Puritan influence is heavy in the quote, stipulating God’s influence and control over everything. The Puritans have an extremely strict religious code of conduct; everyone is born into sin and therefore must offer complete devotion to God throughout life. Puritan law aims to remove all forms of worldly distraction, and redirect focus unto God. Many forms of entertainment are banned in Puritan communities in an attempt keep one’s faith pure. The inner struggle of puritans is evident in the short story “Young Goodman Brown” by Nathaniel Hawthorne. The characters Young Goodman brown, and his wife, Faith, are aptly named to represent the continual mission to please God. In the story, Goodman Brown leaves his wife, Faith, to embark on a secret journey. As Goodman ventures farther and farther away from Faith, he literally begins to lose his faith, and readers discover his journey is that of committing a sin; joining the ranks of Satan’s regime. The story illustrates the Puritans’ great effort to remain in good faith with God. Similarly, Anne Bradstreet’s quote encourages Puritans to allow God to mold them to his will. The quote depicts iron being wrought as should men be shaped by God. Bradstreet’s quote is analogous with many Puritan laws; allow God to completely rule all aspects of life, and only through great personal turmoil can one be shaped to please God.
ReplyDeleteThe quote that I chose by Anne Bradstreet is "If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant; if we did not sometimes taste of adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome." When I read this quote I almost immediately connected it to the story The Giver in which a main theme in that story is without pain it is impossible to know pleasure. Even though this is a very simple idea it is very true. It also makes sense for s puritan to create this quote because they worked so hard that even the smallest pleasure was enjoyable.
ReplyDeleteI picked the quote, "Authority without wisdom is like a heavy axe without an edge, fitter to bruise than polish."This quote reminds me of the poem Death we read by Emily Dickinson because it describes how she is taken by death and shown around all the things she has missed or is going to be without. She is, in my opinion, like an axe without an edge, because she has all the potential but is missing the quality that makes it complete. In Puritan society being complete is incredibly important because the people who didn't follow every rule were considered to be sinners. It was necessary to follow every rule not just one. This is like having authority without wisdom because you do not know what to do with the power if you have no brains behind.
ReplyDeleteI thought that the quote, “If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant; if we did not sometimes taste adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome,” was very interesting. It basically summarizes that there cannot be a good without a bad. I thought that students could think about it kind of in a way that there can’t be success without failure and if there was no failure, success wouldn’t be such a great thing; it would just be normal. I think that this quote connects to what we have read so far in The Crucible because the Puritans seem very concerned about what is good and what is bad. I think that they most definitely fear the bad but they acknowledge that it is there because like the quote says, there has to be both for either of them to mean anything. Apparently, Mr. Parris talks about the fears of the Puritans a lot in church and I think that this quote explains his reasoning for that. I think that Puritans were trying to have prudence but I don’t think that a lot of their behavior was prudent. Puritans were so concerned about doing the “right thing” or the “good thing” that they ended up doing really bad things to their people during the Salem Witch Trial, and those choices were not prudent at all.
ReplyDeleteI chose the quote "Youth is the time of getting, middle age of improving, and old age of spending." This was very true back in the times of the Puritans and it still is now. Little kids constantly want newest toy on the market and they do not think of the big picture. They do not realize it is a fad or a toy they will grow out of in a year. For little kids its living in the moment, which is a good thing, but so hard for adults to do. Middle aged people always want to improve, to look younger and change with the world. They can not sit back and be happy. Goodman Brown could not sit back and enjoy life with his new wife but instead he had to mingle with the devil and evil. During the time of the witch trials the Puritans were trying to rid the bad and improve their society but truthfully they were killing innocent people. Old people spend, spend, spend. They spend money they never used, on things they will not use for much longer. They are typically prudent their whole life but once they get old and rich they blow money. They spend the last of their days sitting. The Puritans and people now all fit the stereotype as previously described and exhibit good judgement or prudence while doing it. Victoria N.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mollie's comments and the quote she picked. "Let Greeks be Greeks, and women what they are." In the Puritan society men really did not appreciate the qualities women had. Their job was to cook clean and watch the children. Men should not treat women as their maids.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Chris F's response. I agree because he thinks that Puritan leaders have little wisdom and do not have prudence. As the quote says they are prone to bruising rather than polishing.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mollie S's comment because to me this quote does say that the Puritan society does not care about the women in the village. I did my Puritan research on the women and learned that the women had very little respect. They weren't allowed to openly talk or do what they want to do, they were only allowed to take care of the children.
ReplyDelete@Nathan Ducey- I agree with your statement. The quote leads you to believe that puritans enjoy every little and big gift that is given to the.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading Emily's post, I found out that a lot of the points she made were what I believed. She said that at the time, the Puritans thought that they assessed the situation right even though it may not have been. She also said that the punishments may have been a little too harsh. This is true because a lot of the people were hung for crimes they didn't even commit. In my post, I said that the Puritans may have gone a little too far in the sense of punishments and the laws that were created.
ReplyDeleteEmily M I agree with you. I definitely do agree with the fact that women Must do what they are told and that children are only to be seen. It is all in truth. I chose the same quote as you did and I had some similar ideas in my response. The Puritans beliefs are definitely far from ours today.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Walbyn's comment that bad times bring about knowledge that ultimately results in better experiences down the road. I disagree because, in "Young Goodman Brown", his life is actually ruined because he comes to understand the evil in everyone. Knowledge does not always bring happiness. In addition, I interpreted the quote “If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant; if we did not sometimes taste adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome,”very differently. To me, it seemed to be saying that there is bad in the world to make the good even sweeter. This contradicts the Puritans because they seemed to fear all hardship, as seen in The Crucible, with the characters blaming all illness on witchcraft.
ReplyDeleteI agree with LindseyS because she was saying how her quote gave a lot of power to women and that was completely opposite of what the puritans believed and I agree completely with what she says, the puritans gave no power to the women, they were barely aloud to speak. So I agree with her completely.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Tatiana. how she portrayed the comment makes sense with the textual evidence that backs it. When I think about it as a youth all I really do is spend much of the things I think that I have to do is actually a privilege I do not know much about the other times in ones life but I would expect them to be similar to the quote as well.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Linsey S's response. She says that Puritan men do not respect women, but I think men respect women for what they do but do not deem them worthy enough for higher education. Men show respect to their wives for cleaning the house and taking care of the children. They do not however believe they are equals.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Shannon on the meaning of the quote "Authority without wisdom is like a heavy axe without an edge, fitter to bruise than polish". I especially liked her connection to Emily Dickinson's poem Death. In my perspective, it seemed like the person in the poem Death didn't really live their life-and so Death was showing her what she had missed out on before she died. She didn't live her life wisely, but instead she threw it away. Also, in Puritan society, the Puritans thought that they were wise but in reality they were only attacking their own people and turning against each other in the witch trials. They ended up hurting themselves and their religion more then ridding the world of wrongdoing.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Rebekkah C.'s response.The men and women did have different roles in society and women were very looked down upon. Just like she said, they went too far with the laws and ultimately the women were not given the respect they deserve. Victoria N.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Tori, the fact that we, not just little kids, always want the newest thing, without realizing that in a year or so, there will be something better. We all want the new Ipod, or the newest phone, or the newest video game. But sooner or later something newer and better will be out and the cycle will continue. I also liked the connection she made with Goodman Brown. That he couldn't sit back just like society today. However I disagree with what she said about how the older generations spend non stop. I think the newer generations spend a whole lot more and are much less careful with our money. The older generation grew up watching pennies, we haven't, but now we need to start.
ReplyDeleteWhen I read the quote "Authority without wisdom is like a heavy axe without an edge, fitter to bruise than polish." I think that this quote really relates to the Puritan culture and specifically the men and preachers. The men of the society were given superiority over the woman and children and the preachers of the community were given superiority over everyone else. However, I do not think that they had wisdom to go along with their authority. I do not think that the Puritans thought for themselves or had their own views on life. They were told what to think by higher authority and they had no wisdom to give.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Rebekkah's interpretation of the quote," Let Greeks be Greeks, and women what they are". Rebekkah uses the novel "The Crucible" as a source to depict the poor treatment of women; her interpretation of the quote is, in my opinion, well thought out.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Chris F. That quote really relates to the puritans and how they went about leading their society.They were not always polished but they always got their way in a strong matter.I disagree with Bryan H. He said the quote was comparing the bruising and polishing but i think that they are being used together.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mollie S's comment about let the Greeks be Greeks quote. She was exactly right because the Puritans did treat women much differently then they should have. Also, she was right about how Young Goodman Brown treated Faith, and how it was different then the traditional Puritan.
ReplyDeleteI don't completely agree with Melissa's answer, but I thought it was interesting. She said that the Puritans were not prudent because of how they had to conform to laws and society. Their laws were very different form society today, but when they created the laws, I think they thought it was the right thing to do in order to survive.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Molly S because it does appear that women were treated differently then men in the puritan society. I think it is interesting how she said that Young Goodman Brown treated Faith as more of a woman then the Puritans did. I really agree with that comment because he was always thinking of her wants and interests while he is out in the forest.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with torin7 because I personally don't think that quote is correct. Although children are always getting, it is sometimes said that middle aged people are the ones who have the most fun in their life. I think even though they are trying to improve they do have a lot of fun. Also, older people do not only spend because in the Puritan community they were a large reason that the traditions were still around they were actually doing the improving on the society.
I AGREE with what Victoria said on the quote; "Let Greeks be Greeks, and women what they are". She stated that the Puritan men don't think that women are worth anything basically. I believe that this quote shows how the women need to be able to express themselves in their own way and their opinion does in fact matter. Without the women, the household would not be kept in order or in shape since the women take care of the house, children, and all chores.
ReplyDeleteI find Shannon's response very INTRIGUING the way that she compared the quote to other the poem "Death" by Emily Dickinson. The quote Shannon used was; "Authority without wisdom is like a heavy axe without an edge, fitter to bruise than polish ". A question that I'd like to propose to Shannon is; the Puritan people thought that all people were sinners in some way, so what if people follow every rule and are still considered sinners, are they complete or are they still "an axe without an edge"?
I agree with Courtney D's response to the quote about not appreciating spring if we didn't have winter. however i am not sure that the puritans would agree with that quote or live up to its standards because for instance, if you put good and evil into the context of the quote, then they would have had to experience evil before they could learn good. The puritans despised evil and i don't believe that they would want to have experienced evil at all and just preform good deeds all their lives and avoid all evil and temptation.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Tatiana's thoughts about how old time is for thinking back. I think even in their old age they will be spending their time with religion, not thinking back. They have already perfected their art of religion, and they are just spending time doing it, not thinking back on it.
ReplyDeleteAuthority without wisdom is like a heavy axe without an edge, fitter to bruise than polish. This quote interests me because in my opinion, it contradicts Puritan way. I do not think that Puritans expressed prudence, yet this quote supports prudence. The quote is saying that one should know what he or she is talking about before making a decision
ReplyDeleteI agree with Rachel C's comment. I think that in order to fully appreciate God, there must be some sin. You must learn form your mistakes, and like Nathan D said: You can't have pleasure without some pain.
ReplyDeleteOne comment that intrigued me was Katie S's. She says that the Puritans were hesitant on decisions if they believed God wouldn't approve. Katie is saying that your life would not be fulfilled if you make every decision worrying about what God will think. Sometimes you must just take a chance and, as said before, learn from experience.
I agree with Nathan's statement. Doing the same quote, I know where he's coming from because I chose the same quote and have read "The Giver" also. Pain is definitely experienced before pleasure, especially for Puritans who only experience pain.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Brian Howey's response to the quote, "Authority without wisdom is like a heavy axe without an edge, fitter to bruise than polish". He compares the adjectives to different short stories that we have read, while I believe the idea as a whole means something.An unsharpened axe won't kill, it will only hurt; this relates to the authority not helping anyone unless wisdom is added onto it.
I agree a lot with Shannon on the poem about Emily Dickinson and I think it relates back to the puritans a lot in the fact that they had beliefs that were right but in their society, there was something missing. I also find Alex's topic very interesting mostly because of the part where she says, "If someone is supposed to go to Hell, they will go to Hell." I found this interesting because even though now people don't have a puritan view on life, yet some people judge others so harshly saying things like, "They're going to Hell". Most of the time it might be a joke, yet some of the time people might be serious when they say this.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Shannon because I do think that the Puritans had a lot of really good ideas of what the ideal society could be; however, they didn't always have the right facts. They knew what they wanted their society to be, but they didn't have the right ideas, or wisdom, behind it.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Ben S because I think that the Puritans did the best they could to eliminate diversity and so they never had to face it. In their ideal society there would be no diversity and everyone would just be the same, following God's teachings and The Bible. They never wanted to taste diversity, so, ideologically, they would never know anything different. Being exactly the same is what sustains them.
@Bryan H
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting how you pick apart the quote and use some of the words to connect to Young Goodman Brown, but how could you connect it to The Lottery?
When I read KatieW's response it gave me some new ideas. I hadn't thought of before that the puritans thought that they had prudence. And after reading this response it made me think more about what they puritans thought they were doing instead of what I think of their ideas.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Emily Mayo. I found your interpretation of the quote very insightful. The puritans did not welcome differences. They have a strict society where most things must be kept to ones self.
ReplyDeleteRachel, I found it interesting that your interpretation of the quote was opposite of the puritans lifestyle. You are totally right about the puritans being such conformists. I also found your information about the punishments to be very interesting.
I agree with Ben E.'s comment. the Puritans did not have much prudence, following the authorities only because they knew much about God. As Ben said, the characters in "The Lottery" were bruised by following every rule in the book. If they had stopped to think for themselves, they would have been able to stop the killing. Similarly, if the Puritans had learned to think for themselves instead of blindly following a leader, they might have been able to stop the witch trails. Just because one has power does not mean one has good judgment.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading Liz's comment I disagree with her interpretation. This is because I think that in reality some puritans did not care for god that much ans they could do things without him, they just had to make the community believe they did.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kyle H. He states that they are imprudent because they followed their leaders blindly. The Puritans just went along with everything their "leaders" told them to do but it was without wisdom. They did not make their decisions wisely which means they were imprudent.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Ben S's point because after I read that quote I interpreted it as without experiencing the bad of something, you can't experience the good.
ReplyDelete@Liz B.- I think what they do is more in fear of god. At the Salem Witch Trials they burned women out of fear that their society was tainted.
ReplyDeleteI agree with BenS's comment about how the idea of evil, or of diversity, controls the Puritans. How the fear of being accused and punished controls them and keeps them from sinning -- which was the whole goal of their communities (to be faithful to God).
ReplyDeleteBut I do not at all agree with the fact that it was better for them in the end. I don't think sacrificing innocent people is the right way too keep people on the right path. I think sacrificing one to keep the many safe is wrong, no matter what.
I disagree with Nathan on the quote, "If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant; if we did not sometimes taste of adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome." I think that the quote means that nothing can be entirely good or bad, there will always be good and bad. I feel like this was a good insight into Puritan society because they tried to be good, but ended up corrupted because of the witch trials.
ReplyDeleteNathan I see what your saying with the quote I just think it would be easier to understand the comparison if you explained more. What ideas were you comparing with the Giver comparison?
ReplyDeleteI find Will's comment insightful; however I think the quote he chose depicts a different scenario. The spring vs. winter example used in the quote demonstrates the contrast needed to appreciate certain things.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with bens2013 because he states the quote about diversity is true to the Puritans. I believe it is the opposite. They did not do things to make them realize the good in life.
ReplyDeletei agree with shannon's quote on wisdom symbolized as an axe and how when you HAVE AND AXE WITH NO BLADE, THEN WHAT IS THE POINT OF THE axe. just like having authority but no wisdom defeats the purpose of having authority and making correct decisions. prudence without wisdom may be taken th wrong way.
ReplyDeleteAlong with Liz B. I also agree with Mollie S's response. I agree with the fact that woman should be able to love and take care of their husband and kids. I liked how Mollie used Ypung Goodman Brown as an example because he was definetly a man that treated his wife with respect.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ben S with his comment on Puritans using harsh punishment and doing things the hard way and it was the norm for them. He connected this to the Salem Witch Trials which is a great example.
ReplyDelete"Iron till it be thoroughly heated is incapable to be wrought; so God sees good to cast some men into the furnace of affliction, and then beats them on his anvil into what frame he pleases." This quote represents the Puritan way of life. We have learned in class that the Puritans lived their life according to God and that if they did not follow this they would be punished. In a way the people themselves were iron because they were so set in their ways that they would not change easily. However when one would change paths they would punish him and, as the quote says, turns him into the person God wants. To the Puritans they felt it was their duty to carry out Gods work however extreme it may be.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Anna when she talks about the authority with out wisdom is like a heavy axe without a blade etc... relating to the Puritan life. It does not connect in the same way i think.
ReplyDeleteThe quote I choose is "Authority without wisdom is like a heavy axe without an edge, fitter to bruise than polish". I feel like this quote reflects Puritan society well concerning the Salem witch trials. The leaders allowed the witch trials to go and on without stopping it, and therefore allowed their society to become corrupt. The witch trials ended up ruining the Puritan reputation and also divided the Puritans against one another. It reminds me of "Lord of the Flies" because of how Jack ended up corrupting and splitting the boys apart. Although they were saved in the end, a couple characters ended up dying and the boys turned into savages. I think that the Puritans didn't show Prudence, considering the witch trials and their actions dealing with it, and the hypocrisy of it all.
ReplyDeleteWhile I thought that vrowlands made interesting points about the women in the Puritan society, I don’t agree with your conclusion. I agree that women were not treated with as much respect as men and they were probably used to it. They seemed like a very religious people on the outside, not necessarily within though, especially after reading part of The Crucible. I think that yes the women probably didn’t know any different from this treatment but I don’t think that they were prudent in going along with it. I think that the Puritans trusted blindly and their fear of evil caused them to do really bad things. They were trying to be prudent with the Puritan atmosphere as you were talking about but I don’t think that they were prudent as a people.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Rachel C’s comment and I thought that she was very right about how the Puritans experienced the bad and in turn saw the good. It made me think that there cannot be good without bad because if everything was always good, it wouldn’t be such a special thing. I also thought that it was great how you connected to this overstressed religion into how it affected their prudence. I agree that the religion caused people to pick leaders based on insufficient reasons which affected how they imprudently and blindly trusted. I also liked chrisf2013’s comment and I thought it fit in perfectly with this previous idea. The way that the poorly and imprudently picked leaders made decisions that hurt the community as a whole clearly reflects this quote and with the example from The Lottery.
ReplyDelete“If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant; if we did not sometimes taste of adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome,” describes the lifestyle of Puritans. This quote shows that they held the belief that without pain you cannot truly embrace the goodness in life. I agree with this quote to an extent. Until recently my life was for the most part problem free and only after having had difficulty can I see how great the care free life was. I have not experienced even a touch of true difficulty and so it is hard for me to understand just how fortunate I am. But does this idea that sorrow must be present in a society for happiness to occur mean that we must introduce sorrow in a place in order to improve it? In the short story “The Lottery” the villagers thought that in order to achieve happiness they must kill one of their members. They chose the victim through the use of a lottery, bitterly ironic compared to today’s connotation of a lottery. The belief that happiness can only be achieved through pain is as ancient as sacrifices which one person must be killed or hurt for the “good” of the whole. I disagree with this idea; I believe that people need to personally experience some pain to understand joy rather than watching someone else’s pain.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Emily’s post when she says that being a Puritan would be all about playing your role and standing in line. Every role was so strongly dictated for you by the law. There was no flexibility or room for individuality or for following passions.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Shannon's comment about how she feels as if she has the potential but not the quality. I believe that she is right about how a leader can be in authority but if they lack the knowledge they are not completely a leader. Also I like the idea presented about how being a complete person is very important to the society the Puritans live in and if they are not complete they are many times shunned or even killed. We can also use this in today society and how you need to have complete traits otherwise that is not how people will describe you.
ReplyDeleteAlex A makes very good points in her summary of the quote. I agree with the statement that they overreact and serve a punishment not fitting for the crime. This is presented throughout Puritan ways such as hanging women for being accused of witchcraft. I also think that Alex could expand on this quote about the views of Puritan women. As a women saying this quote I believe that she is telling people that even if her action ended in a great result she would not get credit for it and others would accuse her of stealing the idea or not truely doing this great action.
I really enjoyed Rachel C's comment on how in the quote dealing with how spring would not be appreciated without winter. It is all about diversity. I love how she related it to Young Goodman Brown and how he didn't realize how good he had it until he saw some horriffic things in his dream.
ReplyDeleteLet Greeks be Greeks, and women what they are. The puritans thought they had very sound judgement and prudence. They thought it was right and ok to treat women the way they did. Women needed to be put in their place back then supposedly because they were inferior and should do house chores, cooking, and dress with nothing that showed so much as her ankles. When I think of this, I am reminded of a present day group of religious people; muslims. Muslims make women wear Burkas and do terrible things to them to make them even more inferior. Were the puritans looked back on and seen as heroic and successful? I think not. The muslims customs are definitely frowned upon and seen as cruel, sexist, and offensive. There is a pattern here.
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